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Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
https://nevergrind.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=942		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Maelfyn [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
:?:
Author:  Lost_Map [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Yes, especially when you get 3 elite mobs with 9 different status effects between them mostly because it seems to happen when you're already fighting an elite mob with 3 status effects on them.

Oh that and they always seem to stun you as soon as they come in making it impossible to try to run away right when you see it.
Author:  TadaceAce [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
:?:


Yes, a triple ambush in a late hell zone is a death in most scenarios.

You could just make is based on level differential, e.g. triple ambushes can happen in zones ~20+ levels below you at low probability and increasing probabilities at higher level differences.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Just imagine: triple champ ambush with frenzied, vicious, fire enchanted, ensnaring aura, crippling aura, shredding aura, conviction aura, disruption aura, and concussive aura. Yep. You're dead.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maybe I'll change it to 33% double ambush in nightmare. 66% chance double ambush in hell.
Author:  Nerolyn [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
As a wizard, triple ambush is instant death unless you can run in time. Very fun when you lose millions of exp too. :(
Author:  mukkel [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Both of my 97 deaths have been from triple ambushes while already fighting an elite. Even as a warrior burning all of my stuns/heals, with all my life leech etc. I die. It's futile to even try and run since you'll fail.

Nightmare is another story - I can survive those encounters but they still hurt... a lot.

/fitzor
Author:  Maelfyn [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Well, a few things to look forward to:

http://nevergrind.com/blog/nevergrind-p ... tes-1-0-4/
Author:  Lost_Map [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
Well, a few things to look forward to:

http://nevergrind.com/blog/nevergrind-p ... tes-1-0-4/

Looks Good!
Author:  hats [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
For the record, this is how Pons died. See its already in the notes so pretty happy for this change on the HC side of things.
Author:  Jysen [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Yea, this used to be absolute certain death to my Ranger, especially with casters.

Thanks for the changes!
Author:  SeismicRend [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
    Removed triple ambushes.
    Dual wield rates were significantly buffed.
    Strengthened the power of 1H weapons for all skills on a global.
    Nerfed mob cast speeds.
    Removed monetization from Reset Talents.
    Ranger Snare now doubles mob cast time.


Great changes this patch. I can't wait to check out the differences.
Author:  vezio [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
    Removed triple ambushes.
    Dual wield rates were significantly buffed.
    Strengthened the power of 1H weapons for all skills on a global.
    Nerfed mob cast speeds.
    Removed monetization from Reset Talents.
    Ranger Snare now doubles mob cast time.


Great patch notes, I'm a bit concerned with just the Reset Talents thing...
I'd keep the crystal cost for respec, maybe allow 1 free respec per char ( or go with your idea of giving 10 crystals on boss kill/Nalatos kill), but a small fee for the others seems necessary imho.
You should be able to make it up to Nightmare without problems, regardless of the skills you use, and by then you should have a good understanding of your build and the skills/spells mechanics, and at that point you may want to respec - and this should be allowed, but that's it. If you can freely respec anytime - 'cause gold is not a problem - those choiches you make when levelling lose a lot of their meaning.

Just my 2c
Author:  mukkel [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
vezio wrote:
Maelfyn wrote:
    Removed triple ambushes.
    Dual wield rates were significantly buffed.
    Strengthened the power of 1H weapons for all skills on a global.
    Nerfed mob cast speeds.
    Removed monetization from Reset Talents.
    Ranger Snare now doubles mob cast time.


Great patch notes, I'm a bit concerned with just the Reset Talents thing...
I'd keep the crystal cost for respec, maybe allow 1 free respec per char ( or go with your idea of giving 10 crystals on boss kill/Nalatos kill), but a small fee for the others seems necessary imho.
You should be able to make it up to Nightmare without problems, regardless of the skills you use, and by then you should have a good understanding of your build and the skills/spells mechanics, and at that point you may want to respec - and this should be allowed, but that's it. If you can freely respec anytime - 'cause gold is not a problem - those choiches you make when levelling lose a lot of their meaning.

Just my 2c


I totally agree with Vezio. Giving your first respec for free is good since for the first part of the game you generally need to do some crap spec anyway since you're waiting for a T4 talent.

Don't get me wrong, I like free stuff! But in this instance I think it's completely fair.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Hm, well what about something that is completely optional like a resurrect scroll for 25? This would recover like 80% of exp from your last death. That could be a reasonable, totally optional thing to monetize. Personally, I think this is a great idea and I doubt it will cause much chafing. Thoughts?
Author:  trentjaspar [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Monetize logins. 5 crystals per login. Automatically deducts from your credit card. :D

Anyway, as I said under separate cover, I like monetized respecs, as long as you get one free say, every difficulty level completed, or every 25 levels or something like that. And maybe allow a free respec after major balance updates (like Path of Exile does).

I also like the rez scroll. I like monetized things that save you time, but don't let you do anything you can't actually do in the game.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maybe subtract 10 crystals every time you hit space bar?
Author:  trentjaspar [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
Maybe subtract 10 crystals every time you hit space bar?


Exactly-- you're paying for the convenience of not closing each window separately. That's gotta cost ya. :twisted:
Author:  TadaceAce [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
trentjaspar wrote:
(like Path of Exile does).



Path of Exile is about the most successful f2p game I've ever seen, take lessons from it. Unfortunately, their entire model is based around cosmetics, I don't see cosmetics being popular at this point in the game.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Believe me! If I had the budget, there would be more cosmetic eye candy. Maybe one day.
Author:  SeismicRend [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
TadaceAce wrote:
Path of Exile is about the most successful f2p game I've ever seen, take lessons from it. Unfortunately, their entire model is based around cosmetics, I don't see cosmetics being popular at this point in the game.


You bring up an interesting point. They have a cosmetic only shop but I'm not convinced that's what supported the game in its early development. GGG has a very passionate player base who bought numerous $100, $500, and $1000 beta support packs before the cosmetic shop even went live.

Edit: To expand on that point. The financial support is important but other player contributions are also important to growing the game's popularity. What makes the F2P model successful is that players who can't contribute financially are still contributing to growth by being active on forums, giving input that improves the game, sharing stories and excitement about the game and generating additional awareness to new players.
Author:  mukkel [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Maelfyn wrote:
Hm, well what about something that is completely optional like a resurrect scroll for 25? This would recover like 80% of exp from your last death. That could be a reasonable, totally optional thing to monetize. Personally, I think this is a great idea and I doubt it will cause much chafing. Thoughts?


The only problem with this idea is your "end/meta game" is the leaderboard. Be the first to L.99! Any consumable that gives you a XP bonus or reimburses XP pretty much invalidates that meta experience.

Now if you made a gold bonus consumable, that's a different story.. and maybe to respec it's not just a sub-1000 gold amount.. it's algorithm that takes your current level into consideration.. Heck on my account right now I have close to 3 million gold. I have nothing to spend it on.

/fitzor
Author:  Lost_Map [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
Let's start a thread. I've been thinking about it for a little while now and have a discussion on things that we would like to see in a "Player Shop" if Mael developed and put one in place. Do we want items that make players more powerful? Do we only want items that have no direct gameplay? Could Mael develop and sell add on classes and races similar to DDO, or even new campaigns that would allow players to take different leveling paths as not to go the same route every time? Do we have a special leaderboard for "Guardian" characters that people could upgrade to Similar to Adventure Quest. This would allow people to level quicker, but their board would be separate from the non-guardian board, etc.

There's tons of room for expanding how people invest money into a game. Depending on the content and bonuses I'd also even consider a subscription for a dedicated amount per month as long as Mael continued to pump out content.
Author:  Lost_Map [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
On Top of this, do we want to see an upgrade option for elemental bonuses. Example you can either purchase a token, or spend 100k+ gold to add on a bonus to your weapon or armor to either resist or cause more damage with your weapons. You know what I'm just going to start a thread.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Triple Ambush - Is it OP?
I don't want to try to run before I am walking here. I think I need to slow down a bit, take a deep breath, and simply appreciate that everything appears to be working very well, including the Stripe transactions. Very few one-man armies could pull something like this off. It's my duty to provide enough self-evident value that the site will fund itself without even trying. Once I wrap up the kickstarter rewards, I can focus on the next round of improvements such as "The Nevergrounds", integrated chat, mailboxes, trade/AH and whatever else we think would be fun to add.

I would be very surprised if the site didn't fund itself with features like that. And even if it didn't generate revenue, it would be very easy to reuse that code in future browser games.
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