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Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
https://nevergrind.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1031		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
ALL MELEE SHOULD GET FLURRY! DO IT! GO!
Author:  TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
mukkel wrote:
ALL MELEE SHOULD GET FLURRY! DO IT! GO!


Giving monk flurry would be OP as hell. Monk is the only melee class where skills do enough damage to compensate for not having a flurry.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
I want to make a boss that flurries you. How about that? And summons 4 pets every time he attacks.
Author:  TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Maelfyn wrote:
I want to make a boss that flurries you. How about that? And summons 4 pets every time he attacks.


Pets are like mosquitos, and as long as I can slow the boss he can flurry all he wants and he still can't touch this.
Author:  mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
I'm scared to hell of reflect damage on my hardcore character... Also, my pets should flurry 32x per melee round. That should make them about right. POPTARTS.
Author:  TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
mukkel wrote:
I'm scared to hell of reflect damage on my hardcore character... Also, my pets should flurry 32x per melee round. That should make them about right. POPTARTS.


It's a good thing iron maiden is incredibly obvious. #encproblems
Author:  Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Keep in mind that iron maiden got nerfed into oblivion a while back. It used to reflect full a percentage of your damage, but now it's basically just a really powerful damage shield that also affects magic.
Author:  SeismicRend [ Fri May 08, 2015 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Here's a farm sample from Hell Dire Sanctum since the nerf. Level 93 rogue fighting level 93-95 mobs.

Image

And summary for Vixen Sarmina, frenzied boss with 400,000 hp.

Image

For comparison, in my pre-nerf video, I dropped the Guardian of Ruin boss in Hell Nimgual with 17,500 dps and he's poison resistant.

I like the new pacing. Slower combat and Champions are actual hurdles. I used to never even worry about ambushes because I chain pulled too quickly for them to trigger. Now Hell deserves some respect again.

I imagine my rogue has a lot of room for gear improvement. I do have Elite weapons but only 1 piece of Elite armor. I wear mostly rares with +all attributes.
Author:  vezio [ Fri May 08, 2015 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Wow, you all did a great job derailing the thread away from the bleed problem :shock:
EDIT : Sorry Seismic, you got it back on tracks already, thx!

Mael, did you play a bit with the recently nerfed Rogue/SK? If this change is here to stay, I'll respec my SK and try out other talents, jk...
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
I have no idea how you're doing so much DPS.. What weapons / spec are you using?
Author:  vezio [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
mukkel wrote:
I have no idea how you're doing so much DPS.. What weapons / spec are you using?


I bet his dps comes mostly from his legendary weapon, am I right?
Author:  Maelfyn [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
vezio wrote:
Wow, you all did a great job derailing the thread away from the bleed problem :shock:
EDIT : Sorry Seismic, you got it back on tracks already, thx!

Mael, did you play a bit with the recently nerfed Rogue/SK? If this change is here to stay, I'll respec my SK and try out other talents, jk...


Since Seismic has shattered all doubts about the new bleed damage, I doubt that I will significantly change it at this point. I think it's a good change because it also gives 1-handed weapons something to be good at while 2-handers are better at flurry-style builds. If anything I might improve the strength of 1-handed weapon bleed effects.

Btw, I don't mind sharing the formula:

  • Piercers: primary weapon base damage x 11 per tick
  • 1H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 9 per tick
  • 1H Blunt/Punching: primary weapon base damage x 7 per tick
  • 2H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 3.5 per tick
  • 2H Blunt: primary weapon base damage x 3 per tick
Author:  vezio [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Maelfyn wrote:

Since Seismic has shattered all doubts about the new bleed damage, I doubt that I will significantly change it at this point. I think it's a good change because it also gives 1-handed weapons something to be good at while 2-handers are better at flurry-style builds.

Btw, I don't mind sharing the formula:

  • Piercers: primary weapon base damage x 11 per tick
  • 1H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 9 per tick
  • 1H Blunt/Punching: primary weapon base damage x 7 per tick
  • 2H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 3.5 per tick
  • 2H Blunt: primary weapon base damage x 3 per tick


Ok then, but Seismic is imo using his legendary weapon, you shouldn't balance around legendaries, first of all... and if I'm wrong here, sorry,ignore it.
Second, the list you provided (thank you!) shows a large difference in weapon styles, a bit too much imho. I understand its logic (even though 2h should cause more bleeding than 1h, piercing aside) but not the scaling.
Third, I tested SK bleed yesterday with the worst weapon class- 2h blunt - but a great weapon itself (Ribcracker) on normal mobs in Act4 Nightmare, and the bleed damage is so low its negligible, they don't even bleed for 1% of their health per tick! On a skill with a medium CD time, you'd expect to get something more out of it...

As I stated already, imo bleed went from op to useless, at least for SK.And the fact that SK cannot use piercing weapons adds insult to injury.
I'll respec out of it and get something else, it's a waste of 19 talent points right now.
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
haha.. well that would explain it.. Legendaries don't count for balance tests... If that was the case my warrior would make all warrior abilities look super OP.
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Maelfyn wrote:
vezio wrote:
Wow, you all did a great job derailing the thread away from the bleed problem :shock:
EDIT : Sorry Seismic, you got it back on tracks already, thx!

Mael, did you play a bit with the recently nerfed Rogue/SK? If this change is here to stay, I'll respec my SK and try out other talents, jk...


Since Seismic has shattered all doubts about the new bleed damage, I doubt that I will significantly change it at this point. I think it's a good change because it also gives 1-handed weapons something to be good at while 2-handers are better at flurry-style builds. If anything I might improve the strength of 1-handed weapon bleed effects.

Btw, I don't mind sharing the formula:

  • Piercers: primary weapon base damage x 11 per tick
  • 1H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 9 per tick
  • 1H Blunt/Punching: primary weapon base damage x 7 per tick
  • 2H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 3.5 per tick
  • 2H Blunt: primary weapon base damage x 3 per tick



These values are way, way too low BTW.

Base damage on most piercers is like 19.. so 209dmg / tick? Mobs have 45,000 hps... It would take 215 ticks to kill a monster with just the dot.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Fri May 08, 2015 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
You guys are still drunk with euphoria from the bleed glory days. Bleed was brought inline with most dots that casters have.
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Play your game. You'll see.
Author:  vezio [ Fri May 08, 2015 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Maelfyn wrote:
You guys are still drunk with euphoria from the bleed glory days. Bleed was brought inline with most dots that casters have.


Well idk about the other classes, but SK dots deal way more damage at lvl1 than bleed - which, I repeat, can only be obtained by the SK through a lvl20 bonus. What's the point of even having it, if has to be like that? Change the bonus and forget about bleed then.

EDIT: Follow Mukkel's advice, it's a really good one. And don't nerf SK's dots now :evil:
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Did a little test. Self-buffs, Autoattack only. Target was a mob in Hell Nimgaul.

Warrior - 99 - Legendary: 5699.4 DPS
Rogue - 96 - Elite: Unable to kill. - Using abilities: 1917.2 DPS
Paladin - 96 - Elite: Unable to kill. - Using abilities: 2011.3 DPS
Shaman - 96 - Elite: 3459.7 DPS

Warrior and Shaman are both Flurry classes - They had no problem killing the mob and took very little damage. The Rogue and Paladin couldn't even melee it down - I'm pretty sure that I got the mobs to 70% life before I had to flee. I then attempted again this time using abilities.

This is what 1h vs 2h combat looks like right now.
Author:  SeismicRend [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
That's using:

Baron's Glissando for main hand
Bone Razor for off hand

Talents I have maxed are Mirage Strike, Backstab, Hyper Strike, Widow Strike, and Prowling Gash.

Speaking of which, I should contact customer support about that legendary...
Author:  TadaceAce [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
SeismicRend wrote:
That's using:

Baron's Glissando for main hand
Bone Razor for off hand

Talents I have maxed are Mirage Strike, Backstab, Hyper Strike, Widow Strike, and Prowling Gash.

Speaking of which, I should contact customer support about that legendary...


Confirmed, Mukkel is terrible at rogue :p
Author:  vezio [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
SeismicRend wrote:
That's using:

Baron's Glissando for main hand
Bone Razor for off hand

Talents I have maxed are Mirage Strike, Backstab, Hyper Strike, Widow Strike, and Prowling Gash.

Speaking of which, I should contact customer support about that legendary...


Confirmed, 2h is dead, long live DW/1h+Shield.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Lmao... I'm going to ignite a 1h/shield revolution when I do my Paladin let's play series.
Author:  Maelfyn [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
It's worth pointing out that a non-flurrying Monk has the #6 combo on the leaderboard right now. So what's he doing right?
Author:  mukkel [ Fri May 08, 2015 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses
Yeesh.. and I'm using ridiculous weapons.. I'm not using any of my 2m cooldown abilities - that's cheating =/

Weapons:

Baron's Glissando Main
Diamyo's Giri Offhand

With this combo, I can hit roughly 2600-2700 DPS.

53/42% Attack Haste
85/75%+ Skill Haste
70.8/50.4% Crit Chance
74.6% Crit Damage

What's your DEX at?
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