Boss-specific rates would work, just don't hit too hard with the nerf hammer
And imho you should let them bleed to death, if they're hit when their health is already low; otherwise bleed becomes useless for half the fight.
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| Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses https://nevergrind.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1031 |
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| Author: | SeismicRend [ Tue May 05, 2015 6:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
For my rogue, the Bleed effect feels balanced for regular mobs but when it comes to super high health bosses it ends up being a huge majority of my damage. Thinking back to how Diablo 2 handled it, the Sorceress' Static Field would not take a monster below 33% health in Nightmare difficulty and 50% in Hell difficulty. Would this be a good way to balance it? What do you think about making bosses resistant to these forms of damage so they don't immediately crumple to this damage type? |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
You're probably right. Same thing goes with Enchanters' gravity effects. It may have to be mitigated to either a maximum or simply nerfed down against bosses. Boss-specific rates are probably in order. |
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| Author: | vezio [ Tue May 05, 2015 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Boss-specific rates would work, just don't hit too hard with the nerf hammer And imho you should let them bleed to death, if they're hit when their health is already low; otherwise bleed becomes useless for half the fight. |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Tue May 05, 2015 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Yeah. The calculation should probably be a bit more complex. Something that would carry a minimum value and a maximum value. |
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| Author: | TadaceAce [ Tue May 05, 2015 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Bard bleed is the same thing. I like the idea of a min max... it would actually be better against trash and weaker against bosses. |
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| Author: | SeismicRend [ Tue May 05, 2015 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
How many classes have access to the Bleed effect? Rogue Bard Shaman Any others? Do any unique items provide it as a proc? |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Tue May 05, 2015 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Gnoll, Shaman, Necro, Rogue, and SK can get it. An item can also proc it: Augur's Harvester |
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| Author: | mukkel [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Definitely something to keep in mind. For some classes that is the only ability that makes them viable - without it they would be pretty much unplayable (to the point where they were fun). |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Like? Rogue? |
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| Author: | mukkel [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Yeah Rogue for sure. Shaman is fine due to the autoattack buff. I haven't played the other classes yet this season with it. Doing Enchanter now until Magician gets buffed a bit. |
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| Author: | vezio [ Thu May 07, 2015 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Mmmm I just read your patch notes...haven't played yet, so don't know how big of an impact the bleed change is going to have, but while I agree that a change in how bleed works was needed, couldn't you have limited the change to just champs/bosses (where it was op)? It looks that the change will affect bleed globally... I don't like the idea that - starting now - there's a different bleeding multiplier for each weapon class; and the best one, piercing, cannot be used by the SK (who can trigger bleed only by reaching a lvl20 bonus). As I said before, this is just a feeling; once I've played I'll let you know my thoughts about it. EDIT: as Mukkel said, some classes are viable mostly thanks to bleed, and by my limited experience with SK, it falls in this category... |
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| Author: | mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 9:57 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses | ||
Posted in another thread, but this destroyed rogues since bleed was 70% of their damage. Prior to the nerf I was getting roughly 5700dps. Now it's 1700. This is in all elite gear with BiS weapons.
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Let's be serious here, bro. If a class is leaning on bleed for 70% of their damage then something is probably wrong with bleed. lol... personally I quite like the new implementation (says guy that never plays) |
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| Author: | vezio [ Thu May 07, 2015 12:19 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses | |||||||||
...or maybe something is wrong with that class' other skills. 1750dps for a late Hell char with full elite gear and BiS weapon (quoting Mukkel here) is really low! Btw why didn't you treat bleed the same as enchanter's gravity spells?? That was the way to go imho. ...haven't tried my SK yet, so expect more posts from me on this topic
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| Author: | mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:16 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses | |||||||||
Exactly, which is why making sweeping changes like this without addressing other fundamental issues is a bad idea, bro!  Any class that had a bleed ability right now is I'm willing to bet - 100% gimped and depended on that damage to do pretty much anything.
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
I'm going to go home and tool around with a Rogue in hell for a bit. If I break 1750 deeps I'm going to make fun of you. |
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| Author: | TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
My bard's dps was already terrible. Now it's just slightly more terrible. If 1.7k is unacceptable, I'll run some parses for you if it'll get bards a buff! |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
I will make bards immune to sneeze attacks in combat. |
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| Author: | mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Could you fix magicians while you're at it? I'm stuck on that red dragon dude and it's impossible to beat him. My 1100dps just doesn't cut it *SADFACE* |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
They're on the list. Somewhere! |
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| Author: | mukkel [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
You're really delaying me getting that server Magician first - NOT APPRECIATED! I've had to create another character and make a HC Enchanter. Thanks Mael - all your fault. |
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| Author: | Maelfyn [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Dude I was up until like 1:30 a.m. busting out this amazing new patch. You should still be reeling from the amazing updates I have unfurled upon you. |
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| Author: | TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
We all knew class balance was going to be garbage in Season 1, you're still working on it faster than I would have ever expected. |
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| Author: | vezio [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses |
Played just a bit with my SK, and I must say your nerf bat hits hard!   Ok bleed was OP before, but now it's borderline useless ( using a 2h blunt right now, Ribcracker); can we agree on some middle ground? My SK is afraid to leave town, and Arwen is getting upset... Frankly, that lvl20 perk now feels like a troll/noob trap ... at least you can respec for free. EDIT: Didn't mean to sound harsh, sorry if I was. Appreciating your game and your constant working and patching
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| Author: | TadaceAce [ Thu May 07, 2015 4:46 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Percent Based Damage vs. Bosses | ||
Kill Nat, boss wasn't AS bad as I was expecting. Granted before it probably would have been 7-8k. Edit: Give bards a flurry!!! Tie it to chant of battle talent or skill! Do it! I have a dream, one day, somebody else will play bard besides me.
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