Here's a farm sample from Hell Dire Sanctum since the nerf. Level 93 rogue fighting level 93-95 mobs.



And summary for Vixen Sarmina, frenzied boss with 400,000 hp.



For comparison, in my pre-nerf video, I dropped the Guardian of Ruin boss in Hell Nimgual with 17,500 dps and he's poison resistant.

I like the new pacing. Slower combat and Champions are actual hurdles. I used to never even worry about ambushes because I chain pulled too quickly for them to trigger. Now Hell deserves some respect again.

I imagine my rogue has a lot of room for gear improvement. I do have Elite weapons but only 1 piece of Elite armor. I wear mostly rares with +all attributes.

Wow, you all did a great job derailing the thread away from the bleed problem
EDIT : Sorry Seismic, you got it back on tracks already, thx!

Mael, did you play a bit with the recently nerfed Rogue/SK? If this change is here to stay, I'll respec my SK and try out other talents, jk...

I have no idea how you're doing so much DPS.. What weapons / spec are you using?

I bet his dps comes mostly from his legendary weapon, am I right?

Since Seismic has shattered all doubts about the new bleed damage, I doubt that I will significantly change it at this point. I think it's a good change because it also gives 1-handed weapons something to be good at while 2-handers are better at flurry-style builds. If anything I might improve the strength of 1-handed weapon bleed effects.

Btw, I don't mind sharing the formula:

• Piercers: primary weapon base damage x 11 per tick
• 1H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 9 per tick
• 1H Blunt/Punching: primary weapon base damage x 7 per tick
• 2H Slash: primary weapon base damage x 3.5 per tick
• 2H Blunt: primary weapon base damage x 3 per tick

Ok then, but Seismic is imo using his legendary weapon, you shouldn't balance around legendaries, first of all... and if I'm wrong here, sorry,ignore it.
Second, the list you provided (thank you!) shows a large difference in weapon styles, a bit too much imho. I understand its logic (even though 2h should cause more bleeding than 1h, piercing aside) but not the scaling.
Third, I tested SK bleed yesterday with the worst weapon class- 2h blunt - but a great weapon itself (Ribcracker) on normal mobs in Act4 Nightmare, and the bleed damage is so low its negligible, they don't even bleed for 1% of their health per tick! On a skill with a medium CD time, you'd expect to get something more out of it...

As I stated already, imo bleed went from op to useless, at least for SK.And the fact that SK cannot use piercing weapons adds insult to injury.
I'll respec out of it and get something else, it's a waste of 19 talent points right now.

haha.. well that would explain it.. Legendaries don't count for balance tests... If that was the case my warrior would make all warrior abilities look super OP.

These values are way, way too low BTW.

Base damage on most piercers is like 19.. so 209dmg / tick? Mobs have 45,000 hps... It would take 215 ticks to kill a monster with just the dot.

You guys are still drunk with euphoria from the bleed glory days. Bleed was brought inline with most dots that casters have.

Play your game. You'll see.

Well idk about the other classes, but SK dots deal way more damage at lvl1 than bleed - which, I repeat, can only be obtained by the SK through a lvl20 bonus. What's the point of even having it, if has to be like that? Change the bonus and forget about bleed then.

EDIT: Follow Mukkel's advice, it's a really good one. And don't nerf SK's dots now

Did a little test. Self-buffs, Autoattack only. Target was a mob in Hell Nimgaul.

Warrior - 99 - Legendary: 5699.4 DPS
Rogue - 96 - Elite: Unable to kill. - Using abilities: 1917.2 DPS
Paladin - 96 - Elite: Unable to kill. - Using abilities: 2011.3 DPS
Shaman - 96 - Elite: 3459.7 DPS

Warrior and Shaman are both Flurry classes - They had no problem killing the mob and took very little damage. The Rogue and Paladin couldn't even melee it down - I'm pretty sure that I got the mobs to 70% life before I had to flee. I then attempted again this time using abilities.

This is what 1h vs 2h combat looks like right now.

That's using:

Baron's Glissando for main hand
Bone Razor for off hand

Talents I have maxed are Mirage Strike, Backstab, Hyper Strike, Widow Strike, and Prowling Gash.

Speaking of which, I should contact customer support about that legendary...

Confirmed, 2h is dead, long live DW/1h+Shield.

Lmao... I'm going to ignite a 1h/shield revolution when I do my Paladin let's play series.

It's worth pointing out that a non-flurrying Monk has the #6 combo on the leaderboard right now. So what's he doing right?

Yeesh.. and I'm using ridiculous weapons.. I'm not using any of my 2m cooldown abilities - that's cheating =/

Weapons:

Baron's Glissando Main
Diamyo's Giri Offhand

With this combo, I can hit roughly 2600-2700 DPS.

53/42% Attack Haste
85/75%+ Skill Haste
70.8/50.4% Crit Chance
74.6% Crit Damage

What's your DEX at?

I may have found one reason why my DPS was low.. my % to hit was 74%. Swapping a couple of pieces of gear made that 95%. Not much difference overall.. definitely not adding another 2800DPS to my ~2500 DPS average.

So of the 5200 dps I did vs. the boss the bleed accounted for 231* dps or 4% of my damage. And this is the most favorable weapon type for bleeds. Looks like we're pretty much back to where bleed was at launch. Seems fine for Rogues but I can't speak for other classes. Since Bleed is attached to Lacerate it's just added gravy.

I went back and cleared Hell Nimgaul again. Doable for the rogue but was intense fighting Nalatos. With Champions and Bosses living longer I actually ran out of tricks and started trading blows. Was the first time I've had to sit in a full duration Fear.

*21 main hand base damage x 11 = 231

I might actually bump 1h piercing/slashing multiplier a bit. You gotta remember that piercers, on average, are very fast weapons. 1H blunt weapons are relatively slow for 1-hand weapons, so that has to be taken in consideration when setting the multiplier. Something like 15-12-7-3.5-3 might be closer to where it should be.

More gear tweaks. Averaging between 3500-4500DPS now. Not using any of the longer duration abilities. Sacrificed a lot of survivability as well.

95% Chance to Hit
73 / 52% Attack Haste
107 / 81% Skill Haste
65.8 / 47.9% Crit Chance

I can't wait till Nevergrounds come up so I can check out his rogue and see what's so different...

I was excited to find a Nightfall dagger last night boosting my damage considerably. I think it's BiS for Rogues. IIRC my dps vs. Nalatos was 6200. The snare proc synergizes well for chain pulling because runners will never get away and instead die to the poison and bleed damage eventually letting you pull the next mob when the first is about to approach 25%.

I rely entirely on my abilities to stay alive and forgo defensive stats on my gear. Mobs have to hit you before they can hurt you.



P.S. Buy my guide! You too can be uber-rogue bringing stabbydeath to all.

Sorry, but checked with my SK. Dooming Darkness lvl 1 does around 120 dmg/sec for 15 sec( spammable at will). Heat Blood does around 150 dmg/sec for 21 sec( spammable as well). Death Strike's bleed does 160 dmg/sec for about 5 sec ( 12 sec cooldown on that ability). Ok damage can vary due to weapon/skills (btw he's an Ogre, STR is his highest attribute) etc. but inline with the other dots? Not really, all things considered...

Btw respeccing and not caring anymore. Balance must be hard I guess. Appreciating all your hard work and this great game.

You just said the bleed is doing more damage than your spells. Am I missing something? So you get a level 20 talent that allows you to 2-in-1 death strike along with a bleed that has zero cast time. I don't see a problem here.

Nice dagger! Haven't seen that one yet. I found one that was 20/19, but it was a caster dagger.. so... Our stats aren't all that different, certainly not 2000+ DPS worth of difference.